cooking in water
when you eat beans, see, cause all carbohydrates can be scored on a hierarchal scale of quality, and one of the things weuse to score the quality, besides the fiber content and the nutrient content,the micronutrients, is the amount of resistantstarch in the food. - [peter] um-hmm. and beans are the richestsource of resistant starch,
which means that a portionof the carbohydrates are not able to be enzymatically degraded. and because of that, theycan't be utilized as calories. they're instead fermentedby bacteria in the gut. - [peter] right. - [joel] now, the more you eat these beans on a regular basis, you build up the bacteriato digest them better and you stop producing gas from them.
- [peter] ah, there you go. (laughs) - [joel] now, whenyou're eating the greens, and beans, and mushrooms, and you're eating allthese foods in your diet, the bacterial biofilmbecomes more adherent to the villi in the small intestines. see, the small intestinesis like a hose, right, that's like a curly hose goin' all around. and the lumen, or the center of the hose,
has like a peach fuzz, like a felt, on the interior wall, the lining. the villi are likefinger-like projections-- - [joel] increasing the surfacearea by more than tenfold. and stuck onto those villi, that surface, are this adherent bacteria biofilm that builds up becauseyou're a regular bean-eater. green vegetables, beans, and mushroom, and onions, raw onion.
and you build up this adherent biofilm, that this adherent biofilmlowers the glucose, the rate at which glucosepasses through the villi now. so when you eat a mango or some oatmeal, the glycemic load ofthat oatmeal is lower, and the mango is lower,there's not as much glucose. it takes longer to get theglucose into your bloodstream. so your instant response isn't as high. so it's protective against diabetes
and makes you live longer. - [peter] and weight gain, i'm assuming. - [joel] and protectiveagainst weight gain. - [peter] yeah. - [joel] now, this is much more effective than taking probiotics, or taking yogurt, or taking sauerkraut, or fermented foods, because those bacteria pass through you. whereas, when you buildup the healthy bacteria
by eating right, the biofilm, and the favorablemicrobiome, is more adherent. that means it livesthere, it remains there. it takes up morepermanent residence there. - [peter] hmm. - [joel] and scientists callthat the second meal effect. what that means is not only themeal when you eat the beans, but the meals whenyou're not eating beans, you're getting thebenefit from eating beans.
so that you're getting benefit from eating the beans in subsequent meals. and they call it the second meal effect, but it's really thethird, fourth, fifth meal. it means any meal you eat, if you're a regular eater of beans, you're gonna have benefits asfar as nutrient production, as far as lowering the glycemic effect. - [peter] because of your intestines.
- [joel] because of theintestine microbiome from becoming a regular bean eater. (laughter) - [peter] that's interesting. i was gonna ask you aboutprobiotics and enzymes. i take, i forget what it'scalled, digest gold or something. it has probiotics and enzymes in it. but you're saying-- - [joel] i'm saying youdon't need that stuff.
- [peter] diet is the best way to go. - [joel] when you eat right,you don't need that stuff. - [peter] right, what about fiber, right? i love taking psylliumhusk or something at night. it helps, it just makes everything easier. i'm a big (laughs) proponent of that. - [joel] you know, broccolihas an incredible nutrient called indole-3-carbinol in it. - [joel] but there's a thousandother nutrients in it, too.
the most active ingredientin broccoli is the broccoli. - [peter] (laughs) what doyou mean, it's the fiber? - [joel] no, it's everythingthat's in the broccoli. - [peter] just the whole thing. - [joel] it's the whole thing. so, when you're taking the fiber, you're taking this, you're taking that. i'm saying the americans who are eating 10 grams of fiber a day,you eat a healthy diet,
you're getting 50, 60grams of fiber a day. - right.- you're getting tons of fiber. why would you take more fiber? if you're eating the right foods, your diet has all the fiber you need. you're helping all the microbiome we don't need digested enzymes if you're eating the right food anyway.
(laughing) - [peter] people are gonna have to listen to this podcast on half speed. some people speed 'em upcause the guests are too slow. - [joel] am i talking fast? - [peter] no, i love it. (laughing) this is exciting (laughing). - [joel] talking about g-bombs here. g-bombs, g-b-o-m-b-s.
- [peter] let me see if i can do it. greens - [joel] greens. - [peter] beans, onions,mushrooms, berries. - [joel] and seeds. - [peter] seeds! - [joel] you left off seeds. - [peter] shit! i gotflaxseeds right there man. that's because of you.
i started putting flaxseeds in my smoothie and now i'm worried thatsmoothies are bad (laughs). are smoothies good? - [joel] yeah, sure. (laughter)and how could you word it? and you know, how could aperson not eat flaxseeds? - [peter] tell me about flaxseeds. - [joel] how couldanybody not eat flaxseeds? - [peter] see, this isthe jukebox portion.
let's just talk about flaxseeds. - [joel] like a recent study is, they followed women who hadbreast cancer for 10 years. those who had a thirdof a milligram of lignin in the diet and flaxseeds are the highest lignin containing food-- - [joel] had a 71% reduction in dying of breast cancer over the 10 year period. now, we'll keep in mind here,
that when you eat a foodto protect against cancer, the effects go down asyour cancer advances. as you age older, it's more effects when you're younger beforeyou have the cancer. - [joel] it still reducedbreast cancer risk of death for 71% evenwhen they had cancer. - [peter] is that right? - [joel] so that means that the effect would have been much morepowerful had they just taken it.
and they only had a thirdof a milligram of lignin. a tablespoon of flaxseed has21 milligrams of lignins in it. 21 milligrams. and it lowers blood pressure more than blood pressure medications do. and it lowers cholesterol. and it has an effects beneficial that affects brain function and mood, and those we're talking here about
flaxseeds, chia seeds, sesame seeds. that's why the s in g-bombs. each food individuallyin the g-bombs list, the greens, the beans, lower cancer rates by tremendous amount. but if we put togethera diet with a portfolio of all these foods that havepowerful anti-cancer effects, longevity promoting effects,that's where the magic happens. - [joel] right, it'sfrustrating for me because
people don't know thatthe greatest tasting foods can be super healthy. and i can make, that'swhat i do for a living is make healthy foods taste great. what are you kidding me? healthy version tastes better than that junk food version you'reeating is gonna kill ya. - [joel] whatever, right? - [peter] but i did hear you talking
about pizza specifically. and you're like, it's cake! this is cake. we eat cake for breakfast. we eat cake for dinner. - [joel] the american diet, the cake diet. - [peter] we eat cake. - [joel] yeah, exactly. - [peter] and it makessense, it's white flour--
- [joel] pancakes, it'scake with, that's the worst. - [peter] yes! - [joel] fried cake for breakfast. - [peter] fried cake! - [joel] and then forlunch, what do they have? pizza, that's cake with cheese on top. - [joel] and then fordinner they have a quiche or some other cake and then it's pasta is cake.
- [joel] it's still white flour again. - [joel] white flourdestroys your brain cells. it makes you less intelligent. takes away your, it makes you demented-- - [peter] that's actually-- - [joel] it's addictive. - [peter] i've heard yousay that when people think they're hungry, i've saidon this podcast many times when people think they're craving meat,
they're really craving fat. that's something that david wolfe said to me i thought was interesting. cause sometimes wheni stopped eating meat, i would eat an avocado and i was like, oh, i just needed something kind of heavier, if that makes sense. - [joel] hmm. - [peter] you're shaking your head?
- [joel] not really. - [peter] not really? see though? i want it, you tell me what you think because you have an interesting idea on what people think hunger is. and you think it'sactually something else. - [joel] yeah, absolutely. i've tested and done studies to show that as people increasetheir nutritional quality
of their diet, we're talkingabout micronutrients here. vitamins, minerals,phytochemicals, antioxidants do not contain calories. - [joel] the american dietis ubiquitously deficient in micronutrients. - [peter] these are micro? macronutrients arecarbohydrates, protein and fat. - [joel] right. - [peter] and they have calories?
- [joel] and calories, right. - [peter] and micro arelike taking a multi-vitamin doesn't have any caloriesbecause it's just a vitamin. - [joel] right, it'sjust the micronutrients without the calories. and so each strawberry has700 micronutrients in it. phytochemicals and micronutrients. each piece of broccoli has 1,000. - [peter] wow.
- [joel] so you can'tget the micronutrients in the inside of a vitamin pill bottle. we need the full spectrum of these phytochemicals thatreally prevent cancer. - [peter] okay. - [joel] and i'm saying that as our diet is low in antioxidants and phytochemicals. now as we eat foods likepasta and bread and salad. salad oils and meats.
the animal products andthe chicken and the bagel doesn't have any micronutrients, antioxidants, phytochemicals. no significant micronutrient load, just a source of calories. and as you build up these calories without enough micronutrients, youalso build up free radicals, and other toxins like lipofuscin and advanced glycation end products
and other aldehydes and acids. - [peter] this is what joein fat, sick & nearly dead. he had a lot of free radicals, which turned into a skin disorder. - [joel] well, it's the way he, that's how he explained it in a movie. - [peter] see, i forgeti'm talking to a doctor. if you weren't a doctor, iwould get away with that. you'd be like, that's right peter.
way to pay attentionduring that cartoon part of a documentary. yeah, i've been tomedical school (laughing). no, this is exciting. you keep me honest, that's good. but free radicals are bad. free radicals lead to disease. - [joel] and they're an example of toxins. and when you cook oil at high temperature,
you produce a lot offree radicals, rancidity. so when we're talkinghere about free radicals are produced in the body. - [peter] uh-huh. - [joel] and othertoxins that are produced along with free radicals in the body and most americans are highly toxic. the body does enhances its repair. removes toxins, free radicals,
and toxic waste products best when we're not eating food. in the non-feeding state. - [joel] so we, look, whenyou're smoking cigarettes, right? you feel this drive tosmoke a cigarette again because you stay awayfrom cigarettes too long and you start to feel uncomfortable. but if you smoke a cigarette, you're gonna feel better again.
- [joel] you're drinking a cup of coffee. you may get a coffeeheadache when you stop, but if you want to feel better again, just drink another cup of coffee. when you're eating an unhealthy diet, you're gonna feel ill when you stop eating the food and your digestion after about three or four hours whenyour stomach empties, your body goes into a heightened stage
of self cleansing and the self cleansing is a form of detoxificationwhen you feel ill. the ill feeling isright directed activity. it's repair going on. it just feels too uncomfortable. people mistake thatshakiness, that headachy, that anxiety, that fatigue, the cramping, the stomach cramping and fluttering. they think that's hunger.
and it's just withdrawalfrom their unhealthy diet. - [peter] so, peoplearen't feeling hungry, they're feeling withdrawal? - [joel] they're feeling withdrawals. - [peter] see, that i think is a-- - [joel] and they feelbetter when they eat again. - [joel] now, if they were eating healthy, they wouldn't feel thosesymptoms of withdrawal. they would feel true hunger.
and they'd feel nothinguntil they were really hungry and if there was a biologicalneed for calories again. so people are eating whenthere's no biological need for calories in responseto their toxic hunger, the withdrawal from their unhealthy diet. - [joel] then people haveto become overweight. there's no such thing asa normal weight person because they have noconnection between their instinctual drive for hunger.
their instinctual drive for calories. - [peter] it's more like a drug addict. - [joel] it's a drug addict. and to feel okay, theyhave to overeat calories. - [joel] they must overconsume the calories. more calories than they need in order to just to feel okay. - [peter] i just have such a vivid memory of playing basketball as a kid and getting
a direct order from mybrain to be like go eat ice cream, right now. like, i just got-- - [peter] i probably extended myself, got a little sweat goingand then i ran over to the ice cream truck and tried to find the most substantial thing they had, which was the ice creamsandwich with the two cookies. and i ate it and then i felt,the baby got his bottle again.
- [peter] you're sayingin a situation like that, i thought i was like, oh,i've been exercising and-- - [joel] no, you're an addict. - [peter] yeah, i was an addict. - [joel] right, right. - [peter] see? and we didn't know. - [joel] once you eat adiet with a high quality of nutrients in it and enough fiber, it shuts off the apastat,you feel nothing--
- [peter] apastat(laughing), i just love it! - [joel] you feel nothingwhen you don't eat food. - [joel] and the hours go on. you don't feel anything until the point when your glycogen reservesare becoming exhausted. - [joel] now, then ifyou continue not to eat, cause your body needs glycogen, the brain can only run on glucose. - [joel] so if your glycogenreserves are exhausted.
the brain cannot run on fat. it has to break down muscletissue to make glucose. we can make glucose frommuscle tissue, not from fat. the body is too selfpreserving and smart for that. it doesn't burn offmuscle tissue needlessly. so it tells you to eatagain, to get more calories before it will start toeat up your muscle tissue. - [joel] that's called true hunger. - [peter] hm.
- [joel] that keeps you at a stable weight for the rest of, all the time. it keeps you at that perfect weight. - [peter] so you feel likeyou have a really clean connection between your brain and a part, it's all in your brain, but-- - [joel] it tells you exactly-- - [peter] it tells you thethings it wants you to eat. - [joel] that's right.
it tells you the correctamount to eat each day so you maintain yourhealthiest, most favorite weight for the rest of your life. - [peter] we're all getting like am radio that's like i thinki'm like (static sound) you should maybe eatsome fries or something and you're just like,something in you goes, hey, joel, eat a radish. right?
- [joel] well, it doesn'ttell you what to eat-- - right.- but just (mumble) your hunger, hunger is a throat sensation, (mumble) in your neck and throat. - [peter] see, i've heard you say that. so you're not feeling itwhere we think we feel it. - [joel] you don't feel fatigue either. fatigue is not hunger. that's cause you're not on a healthy diet.
you shouldn't feel fatigue. people eat to keep their energy up. - [joel] that's not, theydon't need to eat food to keep your energy up. - [peter] well absolutely. we're five hour energy and then we're sleeping pills at night. we're this close to an on/off switch. we just want to feel how we want to feel
when we want to feel it. but you're saying you canbe far more stabilized. with all this negative stuff-- - [joel] i'm saying younever have to be on a diet. you eat what you feel like eating. your taste is enhancedwhen you really hunger. and you don't want to,you said to me, hey joel, walk in the apartment, youwant this bowl of soup, you want something to eat?
nah, it looks like a nice big bowl of soup but i'd rather eat itlater when i'm hungry when i'm gonna enjoy it more. cause hunger gives you enhancedtaste at the same time. you don't feel like eatingwhen you're not hungry. - [peter] it really feelslike a type of abuse. as somebody who grew up-- - [joel] yeah it's, yes. - [peter] the biggest kid in my class
and all that stuff, i was like, i wish i had known, and i'm very excited that there's the internet and there are these documentaries andthere are podcasts like this. and now, what i'm saying is the good news is you found, this sounds like aninfomercial, (laughing), but you have found withscience, in my opinion, a very reasonable way around it,
which doesn't involve deprivationor anything like that. you're not shaking. it's about giving yourself everything that you need so you feel great as opposed to the traditional model of a diet. - [joel] yeah, and mostpeople found nutritarian diet, they eat what they want to eat, they just want the right stuff now. they enjoy it more.
your taste buds get stronger. you like, and you learn the recipes. and it's actually a myth to think that a person eating an unhealthy diet is enjoying their diet, their life, or their diet or their food more than a person eating a healthy diet. that's just not true. g-bombs
your healthy life expectancy, h equals n over c,nutrients over calories. in other words, you canpredict your life span by your micronutrient densityof your diet per calorie. - [peter] so it's not about calories, it's about how, you saiddon't count calories, make your calories count. look, i'll do this for you. i'm hip to the people needto relax about protein game,
but i feel like we couldtalk about that a little bit. you're actually a little bit concerned, maybe not concerned, informed that maybe-- - [joel] yeah, that's a better word. - [peter] yeah, you'reinformed that people are eating too much protein. - [joel] well, animalprotein in particular has effect to raise insulin-likegrowth factor one, igf1. - [joel] in other words that the
american population is poisoned by their excessive consumptionof animal protein. - [peter] mm. - [joel] and the reason we give credence to these studies and howdo we know who to believe? some guy comes on apodcast or on a television, and read a magazine article or the news, and he says, eat moremeat, butter is back. it's the sugar killing you, not the meat.
- [joel] or get atkins, dukan, paleo, boo-boo diet, whatever it is. - [peter] the boo-boo diet. - [joel] yogi and boo-boo. - [peter] yeah, the yogi and boo-boo. it where you only eat small bears. - [peter] oh, and picnicbaskets, i got it. - [joel] the point isthat we give more credence to studies that follow people for decades.
10, 20, 30 years. large numbers of people. looking at hard end points. - [peter] like the china study. - [joel] yeah, or a lot of studies. you know, i can give you a twinkie diet and you'll actually look better in a year because you just gotsick of eating twinkies, you cut your caloriesback and you lost weight.
but over the ten year, twenty year period, you're gonna die of cancer when eating the twinkie diet even thoughyour weight is better. - [joel] the point is hereis that a study published let's say in britishmedical journal in 2012 following 6,000 peoplebetween the ages of 50 and 65. followed them for 18 years. those that had higheramounts of animal protein had a four fold increased risk of cancer.
400% increased risk ofcancer and a 75% increase in total death over that 18 year period. in the higher protein group compared to the low animal protein group. - [joel] the lower animalprotein group was less than 10% of animal product, which is less than 7.5% animal protein. the higher group was30% of animal product, which is less than what americans eat.
- [joel] and you have these-- - [peter] we eat like 60%. - [joel] all thesetrainers and paleo people advocating people to eat 50-60% percent of calories in animal-- - [joel] when we know thatwhen you move from 10% to 30%, cancer rates go up four fold. that's one study. why believe one study?
- [joel] let's pick more studies. look at the studies. what are the studies wegive more credence to? the answer is the onesthat have large numbers of people and go on for many decades and use hard end points, like death. - [peter] that's a hard death. - [joel] that's a hard end point. - [peter] that's a hard one, yeah.
- [joel] study on an 129,000 people, the 129,000 peoplestudy showed that people had a 43% increased risk of death with higher amounts of animal products compared to lower amounts. let's look at the study on 49,000 women who were studied cardiovascular deaths. they rated these women's diet. we're talking aboutover 40,000 women here.
- [joel] they rated theirdiets based on one to 20. they got a score of one to 20. one was like a vegan or mostly vegetables. 20 was atkins type, totally ketogenic, high protein, low vegetable consumption. all the studied people theystudied were not eating much sugar in their diet. - [joel] low sugar, lowprocessed foods diets. just looking at the otherwise the same,
the only difference was the animal product consumption was different. and the amount of animal products got a score of one to 20. and they found that as you went up from one, two, three, four,five, every score going up, the risk of death went up2% for every point going up. and people above 16,had a 60% increased risk of cardiovascular death,not even cancer death.
- [joel] compared to those below six. - [peter] see when you-- - [joel] so we're sowing here,what i'm saying is that-- - [peter] yes, please. - [joel] not controversial. it's completely irresponsible to advocate people eat high amountsof animal products. we could talk about whatlower amounts are acceptable. we could say where is thegray area of discussion here?
but the idea that animalproducts are favorable, it has to be, we americans as a whole, have to tremendouslycut back on the amount of animal proteins they eat, cause we even know the mechanisms involved which the hormonal effects from eatingso much animal protein. why they raise the hormones. how it has the effects. it's all explainable.
and we know how it works. and we have the data, this isestablished science by now. - [peter] it's funnythat you say the studies that we favor. you're speaking as a scientist. i'm speaking as a regular person. i'm like, typically thestudies that we favor are the ones that say go eat more meat. like we love those studies.- right.
- [peter] like i remember first time-- - [joel] i need to make a study doing anything you want. the egg company could show a study. they could pull out, they can say, okay, look it didn't matter if peopleate more or less eggs here. we can compare eggs to, put donuts-- in other words, thestudies on saturated fat. butter is back is all about putting people
on more high glycemic carbohydrates and taking out the fats. and high glycemic carbohydratesare worse than fats. but it doesn't make the fats good because you're high glycemiccarbohydrates are worse. it didn't exonerate the saturated fat. - [joel] the eggs are-- - [peter] it's the lesser of two evil. - [joel] so wonder you don't buy a car
by comparing it to a junkyard wreck. the point is is that itdidn't make another thing good because the other thing was bad. so we're talking hereabout, we really have to compare, look at what'sthe best way to eat. - [peter] well when i watchyour pbs talks and stuff, i get this overwhelming, andi try not to do this because i don't think i have a savior complex, but i do like to proselytizeand i tell people
what's really exciting to me and that's why i'm having you on the podcast. they can listen or not. - [joel] yeah. - [peter] but now thatwe have them (laughs), i have so many friends on the paleo diet. i will say, i take issue with the idea that it's eating like a caveman, cause no caveman killedseven ducks, two pigs,
and a cow in one day. - yeah.- you know what i'm saying? there's so much meat going on but then when i hear you saying that it's 400% more likely to get cancer when you're eating allthose animal products-- - [peter] i feel like i have to tell them. i want them, that's whyi'm having you on the show. - [joel] right, it's almost,
it's ill will not to say something. you're making yourself more comfortable-- - [joel] but it's notgoodwill to be comfortable. - [joel] it's goodwill to be uncomfortable cause maybe you're gonna help their life. even if they don't do it. at least you gave them the opportunity. - [peter] at least yougave them the agency. - [peter] you're like,now you're doing it.
- [joel] let's look atsome of the data here and just do this in lookingat some of this data because there's lots of studies that show that this could be dangerous. and what about salt? cause i hear you talkabout salt being bad. - [joel] yes, i do. - [peter] and then i'm like, i think one of the health trends is we go,
but pink himalayan salt's okay. or liquid aminos, is anythingsalty gonna be bad in the end? - [joel] i heard whenthey went to the moon, they took some salt off the backside of the moon and that salt's good? - [peter] oh, the pink floyd salt? - [joel] sodium is sodium. the idea that some salts have more. that's the most ridiculous thing
in the alternative medicine community. - [joel] salt is 2,000 milligrams of sodium per teaspoon, right? - [joel] so it's 2,000milligrams of sodium. the little bit of mineralsthat you have in some of these natural salts. - [peter] magnesium and whatnot. - [joel] the amount ofminerals is microscopic. it's not as much mineralsas one bite of vegetables.
- [joel] we're talking about the amount of minerals plays noeffect on your health. - [peter] so this is likea play by big salt to say, hey, take some pink salt before bed. it'll help you sleep. - [joel] so i think it's a scam of the alternative medicine communitytrying to get people. but in any case salt causesmicrovascular hemorrhaging. that means the endothelium,the inner walls
of your blood vesselsare inflamed from salt. chronically inflamed. - [joel] weakening theblood vessel lining, increasing your risk ofhaving a clot or having a break in the blood vesselscausing a hemorrhagic stroke. over the years, it damages you, and takes it toll the years and years at the high salt dietweakens your blood vessels eventually and one of theleading cause of death.
- [peter] hmph. - [joel] with people so, if you ate foods without salt in them, you'd be still consuming salt because all natural foods contain sodium. that's what humans did for millenniums, for 50,000 years. we ate the salt, it was in the food. and now we add salt on top of that
and how much salt could we add that would be acceptable? and it looks like, if we added 200 to 400 a day over and above what the food had, it would still be under 1,000. 1,200 for a male, 1,000 fora female, probably okay. but as people-- - [peter] 200 and 400 milligrams-- - [joel] of sodium over and above what's
in the natural food, then your total for the day would still be under 1,000. - [joel] but it looks as if though, that the americans consuming about 3,000. some of the asian countriesconsuming more than 4,000. and we see as salt intake goes up, so does stomach cancer,hemorrhagic stroke, overall strokes, there's a lot of, - [peter] yeah. (laughing)
- [joel] so you can't justifyany kind of natural sodium. - [peter] salt is salt. - [joel] salt is salt. - [peter] i remember ona date and i don't want to cause a flutter in thealternative medicine community, but david wolfe puts salt in his water. he says your body is more like an ocean than it is a river andyou need to balance it out by taking in these "goodsalts" or whatever.
i remember hearing himsay that and being like, oh, i gotta put saltin my water and i did. he was like, it helpsyou absorb water better or something like that. - [joel] there's a lotof nonsense out there. and who do you, do youpick a nutritional guru? - [joel] or do you likethe guy's mustache? - [peter] this is why i love you. you're saying look at the data.
- [joel] or you look at the data. - yeah, look at the data.- yeah, look at data. how much studies haveyou looked on this stuff and if the data's not there,then have an open mind to whatever you're, could maybe have a little flexibility here. you don't know what youhave to say, i don't know. - [joel] but there's certainthings we know we could have overwhelming amount of data about it.
- [peter] okay, salt. - [joel] so when you eat a healthy diet, and you don't overeat salt, your kidneys get more effective at holding onto it. you don't excrete asmuch salt in your urine. - [joel] and over the timeof being on a low salt diet, your sweat becomes lower levelsof sodium when you sweat. so now when you're outthere running in marathons or exercising or playingbasketball or tennis,
you're not depleting yourself of sodium, cause your sweat doesn't have sodium in it because your diet's-- - [peter] your body is using it better. - [joel] your kidneysare holding on to it, your sweat's holding on to it. your body is used to a low sodium diet. when you're used to a high sodium diet, your sweat's putting out sodium
and your urine's putting outlots of sodium all the time. then when you go exercise,you excrete more sodium. your sodium goes up and down,where it's not as stable. - [joel] when you over drinkwater, you wash away sodium. so the over consumption of water, this is why some peoplewho are heavy runners, can over hydrate and have a seizure. - [joel] because their levelsof sodium gets too low. it's not that theyhaven't (mumble) sodium,
it's they over drank water. and you pee out too much electrolytes. what do you think about alcohol? - [joel] well-- - [peter] i'm always lookingfor a doctor to just be like, pete this is what it's doing, it's why you shouldn't drink it so maybe you can (laughing) be that guy? - [joel] i try as much as possible not
to have a personal opinion,just to tell people-- - sure.- what the science shows. - [peter] what does the science show? - [joel] it's carcinogenic. - [peter] okay, so it's like smoking. - [joel] well, smoking effects is maybe, women who drink for example one glass of wine a day have on the average a 12% increased risk of breast cancer.
- [peter] really? - [joel] men who drink two glasses or more have higher rates of strokecancer, stomach cancer, squamous cell cancerof the digestive tract. in other words, it mostly increases cancer in the areas that it touches going down. - [joel] men can toleratealcohol a little better. people think it thins the blood. if you're on a very unhealthy diet,
the slight blood thing,effect like an aspirin, can decrease your clotting,having a heart attack, so it's maybe some heart benefits there. but at the same time, it's increasing risk of hemorrhagic stroke, causeit's thinning the blood. you could bleed to death. - [joel] so alcohol isreally, so some people have been mistakenly thinkingoh, it's good for the heart and it's advertised ashaving some benefits.
it's mildly carcinogenic. - [joel] it's not something that people should do for their health. they should eat rightto protect their heart, not drink alcohol to protect their heart. how do you feel about coffee? - [joel] i think it'sokay in moderate amounts. of course, unless they're sweetening it. - [joel] but of course,or at least keeping you up
at night or it's makingyou not sleep as well or you're addicted to it. and because of the addictive withdrawal, the headaches, the buzz youget from coming off coffee. it's making you eat more food cause eating food can lessenthe headache from coffee. - [peter] interesting. - [joel] so it could be atrigger to eat more calories. as long as you're slimand it's not a trigger
to eat more calories andas long as you're eating it in the morning andyou're not gonna have a lot that's going to effectyou when you're sleeping at night and you're not, you know. so in moderate amounts it's favorable. and for americans, theydon't eat enough black and dark beans and othertypes of those kind of flavonols and blackbeans and black berries and blueberries, right?
so then the coffee beanbecomes a bean they're eating and they get some polyphenolsthat benefit them, to a degree. - [joel] but it won't really benefit. you didn't have to drinkcoffee for those polyphenols. you could have just eaten other foods that have those polyphenols in them. - [joel] there's somesilver lining to the coffee, so to speak.
and the caffeine wouldbe the negative part, but there's some beneficial parts especially for peoplewho are not regularly eating the beans anddark polyphenol foods. and then i was surprised, i only asked you one question cause ididn't want to bother you when i met you in hawaii. we were talking about being raw. and at the time i reallyliked, i still like
eating a lot of raw food, - [joel] um-hmm. - [peter] and i was hosting a talk show and that was really good for my energy. i never really feltbogged down till i ate a lot of raw stuff. - right.- but then you were like, you should cook your mushrooms. you were like, that isbetter to eat a cooked
mushroom than a raw one. - [joel] right, you remember that right. cause it's better toeat the green vegetables and the onions rawbecause there's an enzyme called myrosinase in the green vegetable. it's heat sensitive and then the onion has alliinase, it's heat sensitive. and we deactivate thoseenzymes with cooking. then when you're chewing or blending or
eating those foods, you're not forming as many of the anti-cancer compounds. - [joel] so the certain foods benefit by eating more but mushrooms, very rich in anti-cancer compounds,longevity promoting compounds. it's like aromataseinhibitors in mushrooms and angiogenesis inhibitors in mushrooms, which prevent cancer. and fat cells from growing on your body.
- [joel] but there'salso a mild carcinogen in mushrooms called agaritine and when you heat up a mushroom,even steam it or wok it for even two minutes, itblows off into the air. - [joel] and the beneficialcompounds aren't destroyed with cooking in themushroom like they would be in the green vegetable. so yes, it's better to eat most of your mushrooms cooked, not raw.
and i remember i also said,how do you cook the basic? if people are listening andthey want to dabble in it, something that you taughtme, it's seem so basic, was to cook the mushroomsjust in vegetable stock. cause my first thoughtwas you're gonna cook mushrooms, you're gonna usecoconut oil or something. you think it's a healthy oil or olive oil. these are healthy oils. you were like, no, justmaybe a little veggie stock.
you were just talking about that recipe where you're cooking in water. that i think is news to people. what are some things that-- - [joel] take a wok, put it on the stove, put a 1/4 cup of water in there, throw your whole bunch ofbroccoli, water chestnuts, snow pea pods, choppedup onions and mushrooms, and shredded cabbage anddump it in there, right?
- [joel] let that cook for five minutes. stir it around a little bit. at the same time you're doing that, make a sauce for it. make a nice sauce. let it start cooking in the water while you make a nice sauce. throw into your blendermaybe a peanut butter, some hemp seeds, a date, maybe a squeeze
of lemon grass paste in thereto give it a thai flavoring. maybe a little cumin ora little bit turmeric for the anti-cancer effectsand effect a little spice. put that in a blender. you could put a littlealmond milk in there once you get it a littlethickness you want. whip it up, your sauce is done. pour that right out of the blender, right onto the cooking vegetables now.
it's ready to go and just wokit for another two minutes and you've got a great vegetable dish. - [peter] i just love how excited you are. nobody cares about what they're doing. you really care about it and you make people excited about it. you just made me excitedabout vegetable stir fry. - [joel] no big deal right? - [peter] yes, no big deal.
but most people like my in-laws are not vegan, for example. they come over our house,we try and cook them a vegan meal and be like, this is vegan. and it just doesn't compute as a meal unless there was, like the idea of just having soup fora meal is preposterous to a lot of people that i know and love. - [joel] but the beans give you that
hefty kind of feel to the meal. without the beans there, it's just the vegetables are too light. the calories-- - [peter] i completely agree. - [joel] beans and nutsadd that hefty feel. - [peter] ooh, cialis. you didn't mention dick pills (laughter) in your things that people are prescribed.
i mean, that has to be acanary in the coal mine, if you're having problems in that area, wouldn't you say? - [joel] well, i would say this. that most men developproblems in those areas because of circulatory problems. because of diabetes, because of their cruddy diet. so they age prematurely,and they don't just
get problems with their erections, they get problems with their back pain, they get problems with the circulation of their joints. they get problems withtheir hips and their knees and their whole body falls apart. it's not just the one partof the body falls apart. it's representative of theirwhole body falling apart. - [peter] i knew you'dhave a good one for that.
so this is just anotherhammer hand situation where they're like, mypenis stopped working. they're like, well take this when really you should fucking cool iton the garbage you're eating. they would age slower. they'd maintain their youthful vigor, their mental faculties andtheir physical faculties and their sexual ability. all these things would stay lasting longer
and they wouldn't needto be drug dependent and having to pay all this money. - [peter] because you make so much sense and i enjoy you so much, i wonder what you run into the most as people that might be critical of this. it does seem a little extreme. i love it, but peoplelistening might be like, i'm not just gonna eatstir fry three meals a day.
or steel cut oats-- - [joel] i'm not telling them to eat-- - [peter] i know, there's variety. - [joel] there's a tremendous variety and certainly this is a fun way to eat and they should learn more about it. - [joel] so yeah, so idon't think that they-- - [peter] but what is thebig thing that people, other physicians may bethat say, what you're
saying makes so much sense. is it just a matter oftime for this to spread? - [joel] i don't know. but most people aren't gonna eat this way. - [joel] they're tooaddicted and the people that need it the mostare the ones most likely not to do it. - [joel] cause they're so addicted, they don't even want to look at it,
- [joel] or consider it. but most of my career as a physician and as training to become a physician. most of the response i had from, like in medical school when i was talking about stuff like this. same response you get today. because people say, oh yeah, we know that makes sense and we know
it works most likely but people aren't gonna want to change their diet so i'm just gonna give them a pill anyways. it'll take me too long to explain it. and if i explain it, they're not gonna do it anyway-- - [joel] so i'm just,i can't possibly keep the patients, see enough patients. i'm not going to waste my time.
i'm not gonna talk for hours and they're not gonna even listen to me. - [joel] so it's a waste of my time. it's just much easier to write a pill and you're not gonna make, and they used to always say, you're not gonna make a living that way. - [joel] you're gonna make money, you're gonna be taking up too much time.
you're not gonna changea lot of people's minds. they're not gonna change the way they eat. they just want a simple,people want a simple solution. they want-- - [peter] it's too many people too. it's too many people to explain this to if you're a doctor, doing your rounds. you can't- you can't - do this spiel- right.
- 300 times.- right, but now we have the american college of lifestyle medicine is a growing medical specialty. i'll give you an example. a guy, he's the head of invasive interventional cardiology. interventional cardiology that people put the stents in. and here i'm telling 'em about how
bad it is to put a stent in, right? - [joel] so he gets up in front a medical conference with allthese doctors and he says three people effected my life the most. my mother, my father, and dr. fuhrman. isn't that amazing? and i'm not stenting people anymore. i'm teaching them about nutrition. - [joel] because i work for the va,
and i don't get more money anyway if they put a stent in, based on how productive i am putting stents in. i make money. i want to keep these people healthy. - [peter] yeah, he has noincentive, that's great. - [joel] no incentive and i have people have been getting much better results changing the way they eat.
and if i could tell 'em with strength that the guy that just smacked their head against the wall and say you're committing suicide with food, yougotta make these changes. and not put a stent,it's not gonna help you. you gotta really turn your health around and it works, people do it. we want people to eat cooked beans in their diet, veryprotective against longevity.
all blue zones people, groups of people. - [peter] what's blue zone? - [joel] blue zones areareas around the world where you have the most centenarians, most people living over 100. - [joel] and all the blue zones-- - [peter] centenarians. you have a lot of fun terms (laughs). - [joel] i didn't invent that word.
- [peter] no, i know. i don't think you invited the stat one either (laughs) but they're great. (laughter), they're fun. - [joel] the only word icoined was nutritarian. - [peter] yeah, there yougo, and that's a good one. - [joel] that's a great word, right? - [peter] i like thatit's just so indifferent. if you read data thatsaid we should all be
eating a cow head andit needs to be freshly killed in front of us, you'd be like, well, that's what we should be eating. - [peter] whereas i like, a lot of vegans, became vegan and then started looking into the morality because it wasmore comfortable for me. you're just doing, whatshould human beings be eating. that's what i've been looking for my entire life (laughter).
just fucking tell me what to eat and you're like eat somered peppers you idiot. - [joel] the fact that i get letters and those emails everyday of people who have changed theirlife, saved their life, reversed their heartdisease, got rid of their psoriasis, got rid of their asthma, got rid of their migraines. people who were literally in bed,
who had no life back tohaving a full life again. it's just been so exciting. i feel so lucky-- - [joel] and rewarded and humbled the fact that i've affectedso many people's lives having this opportunity. i didn't think when i became a doctor, i'd have so many people, the ability to affect so many people's lives,
- [joel] you know what i mean? - [peter] well that's the storyof when you met your wife. you looked down your nose at doctors. they just prescribebullshit and they're just kind of a cog in thesystem and you went outside again, not to butter your bread too much, but this is why you're exciting. you stepped outside and succeeded. you broke away from the pack.
the other thing i likeis you're not telling anybody anything thatdoesn't make intuitive sense. eating living, colorful things as opposed to things that are packaged red and yellow and there's some blue because they know that our brains are evolutionarily wired to desire those types of things. those colors, those flavors. you're just saying goback and eat that stuff.
- [joel] right, and people-- - [peter] and a lot of it! and so we don't have to cut, we don't have to eat thimblesized portions of food. we can eat liberally as much as we want when we eat the rightfoods and we're gonna want the right amount. - [joel] so it's not that difficult. it's not uncomfortable, and eventually
you begin to prefer this way of eating. you're not on a diet, it'sthe way you prefer to eat. for lots of reasons. you enjoy it more, youlike the way you feel good. you like the way iteffects you intellectually. it effects you emotionally. you feel good about yourself. you enjoy your life. you feel protected.
- [joel] it's just so, a lot of people are embracing this idea ofeating a nutritarian diet. - [peter] one of thejokes i love is you say this diet couldn't havebeen made better if it was done by al-qaeda. - [peter] it's the most destructive inside sort of terrorist activity that-- - [joel] yes, we have the perfect diet designed to kill people.
and to keep them in areally, in a tragic state. - [joel] because we mix together the high glycemiccarbohydrates like white bread, like a hamburger bun with a hamburger. - [joel] and when youmix those two things-- - [peter] it's in the title of the book! - [peter] you gotta get the hamburger. that's why they made the book. - [joel] macaroni and cheese,
- yeah.- hamburgers. but the point is is when you mix together the high glycemic carbohydratewith a concentrated animal protein, you raiseboth insulin and igf1. the carbohydrate raises the insulin, the meat raises the igf1,insulin-like growth factor one. and that combination,that particular sandwich of carb hormones produces cancer. - [joel] promotes breast cancer the most.
but it doesn't just promote breast cancer, it promotes aging of thebrain, aging of your body, destruction of your joints. we're talking here abouta health care crisis in this country and of course, in a lot of the modern world. cancer is a new phenomenon, it never occurred in human history. scrotal cancer was first developed
in chimney sweeps in the mid 17th century. - [joel] we're talkingabout something that really, we never had breast cancer. countries have 1/50 of breast cancer. - [peter] i haven't heard that. breast cancer is likea relatively new thing. - [joel] absolute new thing. we did some autopsies onfemale, people from the pyramids, where they were in the corpses
that were in, the bodies were preserved. - [peter] yeah, sure. - [joel] no, we didn'tsee any breast cancer at all in women. and they said, that's becausethey didn't live a long, no, no, no. we have, we can test how long they lived and we can see that even inpeople that lived longer, - [joel] we didn't see these cancers.
- [peter] we can read the hieroglyphics. there's 38 pocks here, she was 38. but then, that's very tragic. - [joel] but the point is is that cancer that we know through thehistory of literature and of medical literature, that cancer is a recent phenomenon. - [peter] this is a free podcast. i don't know if you know,you're dropping some bombs here.
- [joel] nutritional sciencehas made such incredible advances in the last 20years that we have the power so our population neverhas to have heart attacks and strokes and get demented. and we can wipe out 90% of the cancer, and also invent this magic pill. this is a stupid, thecraziest thing in the world. we're gonna invent this magic pill from the drug company,
- [joel] people can smokecigarettes for 30 years, three packs a day, take apill and not get lung cancer? - [joel] we're gonna eat american food and not get breastcancer or prostate cancer with a magic pill? it's not gonna work. we have the answers right now. - [joel] the answers rightnow is in your kitchen. - [joel] and right in your own control.
- [peter] see again,this is why i think i get really excited when i listen to you talk. is you're in the freedom business. i like anybody that's liberating people. - [joel] you don't wantto do it, don't do it. - [peter] if you don't want to do it, don't do it. - [joel] i don't care if you don't do it. - [peter] yeah, eat whatever you want.
- [joel] i'd be in medical school, walking in my class, in the path to get to my seat and people would behiding their candy bars. and i'd go, i'm not your mother. eat whatever you want. - [peter] yeah, but you're saying that you're being sold a bill of goods. when people are with advertising,
you talk about the sugar and the salt that you don't even taste that they put into fast food. - [joel] yeah, and they're addicting too. - [peter] it's not evento make you taste it. i get that fat and salt taste good. and sugar tastes good. but injecting it into theinside of a french fry or in the batter.
- [joel] they inject intothe french fry batter. they put the sugar and saltand the msg in the meat. - [peter] just for your brain. - [joel] just so it makesyou get more thirsty. drink more soda, eat more food. the more you put salt andoil and sugar in a food, the more people are gonnaincrease their caloric intake. and oil comes in free. - [joel] oil doesn't shut off the apastat.
in other words, if i gaveyou 200 calories of walnuts, you'd eat 200 calories less of the lunch because the walnuts wouldshut off your apastat and stop you from takingin those calories. - [peter] apastat? like thermostat? - yeah, like a thermostat.- i love it! - [joel] so if i put 200calories of walnut oil because there's no fiberassociated with it, - [joel] you wouldn'tsense you're eating it
cause there's no way thebody can sense how much calories, the body doesn'tsense calories as much-- - [joel] as it senses the bulkof the food and the fiber. - [peter] i've seenthat image of a stomach and it fills up with 300 calories of oil. - [joel] right, and that'swhy i made that image-- - [peter] that's you! when you eat a lot of lettuceor whatever it might be. eat a big salad, yourstomach gets, what is it?
the apa-- - [joel] the apastat? - [peter] how did i forget? it's so fun, the apastat gets triggered because your stomachis full but you can eat a lot of fuck ton of oil, you can swear on this podcast (laughs)without feeling full. so you put out the oil andthe bread before the meal. and people are sopping up--
- [joel] right, you'resopping up free calories cause you don't senseit, you eat just as many calories in the meal. but oil, as opposed to eating whole foods, makes you eat morecalories so it's not just the extra calories you took from the oil, but adding salt and oiland sugar to the food makes you even want to eat more calories than you need.
and more calories than you need of course shortens your life span. - [peter] this is insane. this is insane. well that's why i thinkabout in terms of freedom. these people are, foodcompanies are figuring out what your brain wants andways to trick your brain into eating things andthey're just trying to sell more product.
it's not really, you're bad for business. what you preach is bad for business. - [joel] and i'm badfor the drug companies and all of it, the restaurant business and everybody hates me, that's why i have a bodyguard. that's why i have a bullet proof vest and a bodyguard. - [peter] that is not true.
- [joel] no, i'm just kidding. - [peter] going back to the freedom of it, people think that eating whatever we want, i've talked to peopleabout nutrition before. i can be annoying in that way. i'm trying to help or whatever it is. and my friends are likei'd rather live shorter and eat whatever i want. i'm sure this is somethingthat people say to you.
- [joel] sure. that's what people who are delusional-- - [peter] tell me what you mean. i know what you mean, but tell me. - [joel] food is very addicting. and people who are self delusional and illogical will come up with irrational excuses why they continueto smoke cigarettes, snort cocaine, or dowhatever they want to do.
- [peter] you're sayingit's the same thing. you're saying these people are addicted to these things, the dopamineassociated with eating. - [joel] dopamine in the brainis the same as narcotics. - [peter] yep. - [joel] and it takes awaypart of their conscious brain. so their addictions are talking, because your primitive brain wants to protect your addictions.
so you come up withthese delusional excuses why you can still smoke cigarettes. when i'm pregnant i'll stop. right now i have toomuch stress in my life. as if smoking cigarettes, snorting cocaine or eating junk food lowers your stress. it takes away your abilityto make choices in life because it makes you stupider. - [joel] yes, like whenyou eat processed foods
and sugar, and honey andmaple syrup and french fries. when you eat those foods,it destroys brain cells like alcohol does. so it's making you dumber,and it's making you takes a cloud over your life, like a fog. makes you more depressed,makes you unable to make good choices in life. it makes you make bad decisions and you're unable tosucceed at your career.
so it puts a level of, it lowers the level of ability and achievement in your life. lowers your ability to be happy and then you're saying, igotta keep doing it though, i gotta keep doing it. - [joel] because i'mgonna live a better life. you're no longer in control of your life. your addiction is in control of your life. decisions are made by your addictions.
craving those foods,having to eat those things. and then you're ill all the time and then you get to be older, - and then you get really ill.- you're really ill. you're depending on physicians,you have joint pain, hip replacement, back hurts, your kidneys are going bad. you're taking medications. your life revolves aroundyour medical problems.
- [joel] and you thinkyou had a better life and they don't even know that they would have liked the food, thetaste of the healthy food better anyway. - [joel] cause that's another ridiculous-- - [peter] well, it wasnever offered to us, was it? - [joel] yeah, they didn't even know that they could makehealthy foods taste good and they didn't train their taste buds.
in other words, when yourtaste buds are deadened by the high sugar, highsalt, highly palatable diet, you don't enjoy theflavor in a strawberry. - [joel] i can give you,what do you want to eat? apple pie a la mode? i can give you a healthyapple pie a la mode that tastes just as goodbut you gotta get used to eating this way beforeyou really appreciate-- - right.- the taste as much as i'm
gonna appreciate the taste. - [peter] and you said thatit takes a couple weeks just to kind of flush itout or, is it not really? - [joel] no, it takes more than that. - [peter] it takes more than that? - [joel] often in mycareer as a physician, i thought it took likethree months to get your taste buds to really come back fully. - [joel] but i actuallydid a study and published
it in nutrition journalthat we tested it on people. and to see how much timedid it take them to like this way of eating morethan their old diet. and for a large number of people, it took six months, actually. - [joel] even threemonths, their taste buds didn't even come back yet. - [peter] this is why iwanted to have you on. is you're talking about,you're just looking at science.
you seem like a guy thatgoes like, i don't have an agenda in this way. - [joel] that's correct, that's correct. - [peter] i'm not being paidby the vegetable people. i don't wanna have, ifeel that it's my duty as a nutritional scientistand as a physician specializing in nutrition notto have a predetermined bias. not to have any other agendas. i mean, sure eating less animal products
and less meat will begood for the environment. - [joel] but i'm not a climate scientist. - [joel] it'll be good,there's ethical reasons, but i'm not an ethicist. in other words, i stick to what i do best. - [peter] you're sticking to one area. - [joel] i'm sticking togetting the nutrition, being familiar with all the science, and giving people thescience that's unaffected
by any other factors and they can use this to know they have unbiased information to make choices they want to make. - [joel] that they canmake the best choice for their life. - [peter] have you heardanything about the stress? some of my friends that loveto eat, myself included, you want a cheat or strike,they'll sometimes quote, i haven't even seen thestudy, they're like they said
that the stress associatedwith denying yourself the foods that you want is alsoreally bad (laughs) for you. have you ever heard that? - [joel] i don't know ifthere may be something like it, but that's, no. that's totally ridiculous. snort cocaine, i'm gonna snort cocaine. that's good for me because the stress of denying me cocaine is gonnanot be good for my health.
that's a really good one. - [peter] you see, going back to-- - [joel] that just shows people don't know that white bread with saltand sodium bromide in it is a class two carcinogen. these are carcinogenicfoods that cause diabetes and dementia and they'readdictive and denying yourself things that are dangerous for you is not, it's called good sense--
- [joel] and sensible. - [peter] i heard yousay something interesting that statisticallyspeaking, life span appeared to be shorter centuries ago, but it was because so many womenwere dying in childbirth and so many children weredying early on as well. - [joel] yes, that's right. - [peter] so it kinda-- - [joel] high infant mortality,
high childhood mortality,high child birth mortality. one in nine women died giving child birth. but if we look at, for example, in the 13th and 14th centuries, take the males who wererenaissance artists, who produced works of art. - [joel] they had longer life span than the average maletoday in this country has. - [joel] so the idea thatwe're living longer than before
is yeah, we are, but adultsaren't living longer. adult males aren't living longer. - [peter] this is what ilove about this message. it's not about shaming peoplefor wanting to drink soda-- - [joel] yes, it is. - [peter] we can shame if we like, but what i'm saying isit's more you're saying, you got pulled into somethingthat you didn't understand. - [peter] like you got tricked.
that's why i like i thinkyou're in the freedom business. people are drinking soda, eating cake, all that stuff becausewe think it's normal and you're saying itdoesn't have to be that way. tell the people what anutritarian is basically. - [joel] well, the wordnutritarian is a word i coined. that means a person whois eating very healthfully and trying to get sufficientnutrients in their diet. there could be people that arephilosophical nutritarians.
philosophical nutritarianis a person that understands that they're in control oftheir health and the quality that they live their life. the healthier they eat effects their long term health later on in life. it's about longevity, it's about health, it's about not getting a stroke, not getting a heart attack.
- [peter] it's reversingdiabetes or something. - [joel] you being incontrol of your life. not having it be luck. - [joel] or even genetics. - [peter] that's one of the crazy things that we all do is we allwalk around going like, and i do this, is todaythe day that i feel some weird pain and i go to somebody like you, and you're like, sorry.
- [peter] we go to hospitals-- - [joel] and fear! living with fear of gettingcancer every minute. can't run to a bus, you'regonna have a heart attack? - [joel] beginning to anytime over the age of 60, i want to be doing mogulsand playing volleyball on the beach and sprintingand racing my kids and see who can run faster. - [peter] still winning, damn it.
you want to live longerand do all the things you did in your 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s that you did in your 20s. now, why should you change? why should your life notget the full enjoyment? - [peter] and you're sayingthat it doesn't have to. i get the feeling when i go to the doctor, if i have some weird thingthat i want them to check out, you have your freedom pass and then you go
into the hospital and you're like, are you going to renew my freedom? can i leave and continuebehaving exactly the same way? you talk about it like hitting your hand with a hammer and thengoing to the doctor. you tell it, it's your thing, it's better. - [joel] and also the pointi was making right now is fear is bad for your health. - [joel] and going for these medical tests
in constant fear of disease. you have the fear of diseaseon you all of the time. when you eat healthy,you have freedom of fear. and it not only makesyour brain, makes you see, have your full brain faculties as you age. - [joel] but it meansyou're aging with joy. - [peter] that's what i'm saying, that's why i'm having you on. - [peter] this isn't aboutfat shaming or anything,
this is about life living and joy having. and that's why i get veryexcited talking to you now. - [joel] i'm saying you hityour hand with a hammer. it's like going to a doctor, you hit your hand with a hammer everyday. go to a doctor who gives youa pill to take away your pain, you go back home and hit yourhand with a hammer again. - [joel] you're lookingfor drug seeking behavior. - [joel] is he going to doctorswhose toolbox are drugs?
- [joel] you can't get health from drugs. - [joel] you can't buyyour health in a bottle. - [joel] you have to earn it. drugs have nothing to do with your health. and you've even saidthat the health industry can even be downright harmful. it's just the way that it's been set up. - [joel] i said it a little more, adamant than that.
- [peter] is that right? (laughs) well, please. - [joel] i'm saying here that this sounds quite radical but i think ihave the science to support it. - [peter] i love it. - [joel] that what themedical profession mostly does is not just worthless. because worthless meansnot good or not bad. it just means nothing.
- [peter] it's neutral. - [joel] neutral. cumulatively it's worse than worthless. because when you're treating people. when the number onedrugs are blood pressure medications, diabeticmedications, anxiety medications, antidepressants, andcholesterol lowering drugs. these drugs, where theperson has the high blood pressure, has the anxiety,has the depression,
has the high cholesterolbecause of what they're eating-- - [joel] and you don'tgive them the opportunity that they could havegotten well and you just have a drug that'sgonna cause more further serious problems like cancer. - [joel] then you've sold that person out and you've added the toxic drug. it's not like you're theperson with the hammer now who smacked their handis just getting a pill,
now they added moretoxic and cancer causing and more harmfulsubstances into their body over and above hittingthemself with the hammer. - [joel] cause the drugput further toxins into their body on top of thebad foods they were eating. - [peter] so they're worse now? - [joel] their long term health. and antibiotics cause cancer. double the risk of breast cancer.
14 courses of antibioticsthrough your life. the point is is that, and most of them are prescribed for peoplewho have viral infections in which they don't work. people go to doctors and doctors use fear and the people arefearful of getting sick. and people give the people what they want. give the drugs that theyknow are cancer causing or dangerous and then the elderly people
that aren't going to help them anyway. and if they were going to help them like lowering their blood pressure to prevent a stroke orlowering their blood to hurt their kidneys, then it would have been better if they hadn't used. or diabetics medication, then it would have been better if they hadused nutrition, not the drug. in the accord study, was that we took
the national instituteof health did it in 2008. they had to stop thestudy because the people who had more medicalcare, more doctor visits, and more visits withthe nurse practitioner to keep their glucose in the most favorable range for the diabetics. the more they had the doctor visits, the more they kept their glucose lower, increased their death rate rapidly--
- [peter] oh, really? - [joel] so they had to stop the study. - [peter] the oppositeof what they wanted. - [joel] that's right, ithad the opposite effect because more control of theglucose meant more drugs. and the drugs make you gain weight. the drugs make the familybeta cells in the pancreas overwork themselves pushing harder, it poops you out faster.
so your diabetes becomes more advanced. it leads to more insulin, more growth promoting drugs like this make you promote cellularreplication in cancer. more of these drugs cause cancer. they accelerate your diabetic parameters get worse over time. they look like they'retemporarily getting better but over time they make you worse.
it's like bringing yourcar to the gas station mechanic with the oil lightflashing on your dashboard, and he reaches in therewith a wire clippers and he cuts the wire to the dashboardso you can't see the light flashing and then youdrive your car with no oil and your car burns out. here we go to the doctor,he fixes the blood pressure with a medication or the blood glucose with a medication but it makesyou burn out the car faster.
they didn't tell you about that, that you're gonna (mumble)cancer from the drugs. it's gonna burn out the diabetes faster. they're gonna worsen. they'll give you drug, put in the stent in your heart for angina. and now we put a foreignbody in your heart. which increases the chance of having a clot for the rest of your life
and by the way, putting the stent in not extend your life because it doesn't stop future heart attacks because the vulnerable plaque isn't the most obstructive plaque that had the calcifications that caused the blockage anyway. it's the other part of the heart that you don't even treat with the stent
that's gonna cause the heart attack. but now they put the foreign body with the stent in your heart. now we gotta put youon blood thinning drugs the rest of your life. and these blood thinningdrugs now increase your risk of hemorrhagic stroke and gastrointestinal bleeding. and now you have to be ona drug and so now you're--
- [peter] you're taking adrug for the drug. (laughs) - [joel] you're takinga drug for the drug. so now you're at higherrisk of hemorrhagic stroke because you thinned the blood. and then the blood pressure medication cause atrial fibrillationso we gave you a higher risk of hemorrhagic stroke, but of course they irritate your stomachfrom these blood thinners. now i gotta give you a drug for that.
and those drugs weaken your bones. and the drug for weakening your bones they gave women increasedrisk of atrial fibrillation, we're back to that again. - [peter] oh my god. - [joel] which irregular heartbeat, it's all big, vicious cycle. so i'm saying that it's bizarre, it's barbaric, and peopleare completely uninformed
and i would be okay if you want to get into this medical model oftreating everything with a pill. and you think your life's gonna be better eating the junk food to earn that. and i wouldn't have any objection to that if people were adequately informed. - [joel] if they hadcomprehensive informed consent. - [peter] if they knew-- - [joel] if they knew all the risks
of what they were going through. if they knew how effectively they could reverse their diabetes and get off the cholesterol lowering drugs. if they knew how their blood pressure could more be effectivelytreated with the right diet. and they still chose to take those drugs that are gonna double therisk of getting breast cancer, or increase the riskof hemorrhagic stroke,
they want to go that way. go ahead, it's a free world. - [joel] but i'm thinkingthere are millions more people that would adopt a moreaggressive nutritional approach having been given all the correct facts. - [joel] that are never made aware of. - [peter] wow, i thinkthis is news to people. people with type two, andsometimes type one diabetes, you can reverse that throughdiet is what we're saying.
- [joel] isn't it crazythat a person with diabetes wouldn't know they hadthe option to reverse it? - [peter] that's what i'm saying. - [joel] isn't that crazy, they don't even know they could reverse it. - [joel] and that'swhat's really terrible. can we clarify that though,cause it's important? - [joel] a type two diabetic is the type that can be reversed.
- [joel] that's the personthat usually is overweight and they developed it later in life. type one is those morelikely to be childhood onset where the beta cells inthe pancreas are destroyed. - [joel] that's not typically reversible. especially when you'recatching it later on in life. however, it's so critically important that a type one diabeticsadopts a nutritarian diet because they're conventionallytreated with all
the insulin they need tokeep their glucoses low. and they're not told that they're doubling or triplingtheir need for insulin. they using six units a day, that's gonna cut shorttheir life by 30 years. - [joel] you have to eata diet that only requires you to use 20 units aday, not six units a day. in other words, what i'm sayingis that type one diabetics have incredible morbidityand early mortality
because they're overusing insulin because the diet they're on isinappropriate for them. - [joel] and even thoughthey're still gonna require some insulin, they're insulinneeds would be 2/3 less. they wouldn't have highs and lows. they'd have a normal lifeto live 95 to 105 years old without having the morbidity,the kidney problems, the eye problems, the nerveproblems that the diabetics so typically get.
leading cause of blindness. and the other thingis, i do have type ones that reversed their diabetes. but they came to me, it'sa few of them, not many. it's a few that came to mewhen they were very young, like four to seven yearold kids whose parents brought them in whenthey were first diagnosed with type one diabetesand they immediately adopted the nutritarian diet.
and as they went intotheir honeymoon period, they never came out. - [joel] in other words,they ate so healthfully when they were just gettingthe diabetes at a very young age that they wereable to recover from it and eventually theantibodies against the beta cells in the pancreas startto come back to normal. i have a lot of these kidsright now i'm treating that have type one diabetesthat are off their,
that had type one diabetesthat are off their insulin. - [peter] you could atleast lower the insulin. - [joel] no, they're offtheir insulin completely. - off it.- they're off it. they don't have type one anymore. they're cured. but, that's not most type one diabetics, that's only because wecaught it so early on. - [peter] so early.
- [joel] i even have onekid that caught it before it became type one diabetic. they caught the antibodiesin his blood cells starting to increase that would put him at higher risk of developingtype one diabetes. if he got the virus that kind of works with the antigens thatdestroy the beta cells. so we got him, we caught him early on so now he's on the reversal program.
he never had type one diabetes. - [joel] we're preventinghim from getting it because he had the bloodmarkers that indicated he was at high risk for it. - [peter] hm, wow. - [joel] so what i'm sayingto you is that i don't, so even though i considertype one diabetes not a typically reversibleillness, there are some cases, unique cases, where it has been reversed
if we caught it very early. - [peter] but the typetwo that is sometimes, i'm not an expert, caused bydiet and whatever it might be, can be reversed with diet? most type two diabeticsare insulin resistant. their pancreas is stillproducing enough insulin. if they eat properly, they lose weight, they get healthy, they haveenough insulin production to not need medication, tohave normal hemoglobin a1cs
and not be diabetic. so they're essentiallya non-diabetic because they have normal blood parametersand don't need medication. should they go back and eat poorly again and gain weight again,they'll get diabetes again. - [joel] but as long asthey're eating right, they're non-diabetic. i literally was concerned for you. i was like, i'm gonna askdr. fuhrman all these things.
what is a nutritarian and all this stuff? and here you are, demonstrating(laughs) higher level of brain function and energy and passion. - [joel] and i'm 95 years old.
Comments
Post a Comment